Good luck with this, Lucas! I, a retired Army SGM and retired geographer, would be terrible at this tactic you are promoting.
I can accept all of the different points of view, but will not pander to people who think Trump is an ordinary person just "telling it like it is!" He's a fraud with 34 felony convictions of such. He's a liar -- a serial liar. He's an adjudicated sex offender. Given that woman could still somehow believe that he is a righteous leader for the regular folks makes me nauseous. Look at Mar-a-Lago for God's sake! He's turning the Oval Office into a brothel parlor!
I grew up taking care of hogs so don't give me this nonsense about being elite and condescending. My parents, my larger family, and the whole community were just ordinary country folks. We were all basically poor, but we had dignity and honor. At 74, I still try to retain those qualities. I would have stood up, excused myself, and marched away from that woman --- in nausea. I'm sorry but I will not pander to intentional ignorance and stupidity. I can't do it. You carry on with that, Lucas.
I find it disrespectful to condescend to people. Essentially you gain their trust anyway you can and then they will believe whatever you say. I understand the value of sales. I understand the difficulty of selling. I understand politicians have to dell. But I could never do it myself and I suspect there a different more respectful ways. I mentioned them in another post.
Lots of interesting points. I agree with most of them. As a retired school counselor, I know you have to talk to people from where they are. However, I would like to address your comments about ageism. I am 80 years old so I know a thing or two about aging. Holding the office of president of the United States is a high stress high pressure job if it’s done right. It requires hours of reading and talking. While I have no doubt Joe Biden had slowed down, I believe many of his issues were the result of lack of rest and time to recoup. Donald Trump has definite cognitive decline but it shows up differently. He, apparently, doesn’t read all the important papers he should; and he definitely takes a lot of time off to recoup. But he doesn’t have a lot of stamina, loses his train of thought, and acts impulsively. Either of these men look much different in clips from ten years ago. I hope this gives you a different perspective to think about.
Yes, Donnie knows what's required of the office-holder "if it's done right." That's why he sits back, sucks his thumb, lets Elon do all the heavy lifting, and relies on empty two bit slogans about tariffs and immigrants. He's got no material.
Ah, the aging problem - everybody does it differently and it's unpredictable. But once you hit 80, things can take a nosedive. I'm 86 and kick myself every time words escape me - which is why I write rather than talk. I can take the time to find that elusive word. Stamina nose dives as well. I suspect even that fireball Bernie Sanders needs careful TLC to keep going the way he does.
In My opinion we should cherish our elder statespersons and save them for the times we need their carefully honed and edited wisdom.
Donnie doesn't appear to read much of anything. He's sort of notorious for not bothering to read things. That's one of the reasons he acts impulsively: he has no idea what he's doing, and he doesn't waste his time and get bogged down reading things. Or getting any other form of education.
I did not follow every single thing Biden said/did after he stepped down or the election, but what I did see, which was many speeches, talks to the American people I did not see this huge debilitating cognitive decline that the press seemed to see while seeing nothing wrong with trump. Trumps lies, inability to speak in complete sentences, inability to actually answer a question , inability to provide facts, was just fine with the media and continuing to point out that he bankrupt every business he ran as well as did not pay people he owed while under Biden's direction the American economy grew to be the best in the world was not what the media choose to do. In what was perhaps his final interview, an interview on Meidas Touch Network I was a slow speaking man in control of the facts, with compassion and concern for his nation. No he was not a firey speaker. He did not have a ton of energy...just the basis for good policies that were good for all Americans. If there is blame to be placed I do not feel it is with Biden or the Democratic party for selecting him, but rather the blame is with the media, all of which was and is pro trump and the voters who choose to not vote. No one in the media ever asked trump "Since you have bankrupted all of your companies specifically how will you run the country so that you do not bankrupt it". None of the media held him accountable except the burgeoning independent media. I do agree that we will never change trump supporters. Our job is to convince those independents who for some unknown reason thought the man who bankrupt all his companies, did not pay expenses to towns/cities where he held rallies etc etc was a good businessman who would help their small business thrive, and all those voters who choose to just not vote, possibly because they thought a convicted felon with horrible business practices and disdain for veterans, women, Muslims and anyone not white male and rich could not possibly win, to get out and vote. Trump not only did not win the majority of votes, he only won 49% of the 65% of voters who voted. That means there are a whole lot of voters out there who we should be able to convince to get out and vote. Maybe not in states like Missouri that as so red now (I live in Missouri) but in every single swing state. The harsh reality of the harm the trump admin is bringing to America is getting so obvious that even fox news can hardly ignore it but they do their best to minimize it as does most corporate media so part of our job needs to be to encourage corporate media to report the reality, and to continue to abandon them anyway for independent media like Medias Touch Network. Heather Cox Richardson, Brian Tyler Cohen.
I'm 71 and I didn't see the cognitive decline that others saw. What all the Democrats complained about was not his decisionsking skills but rather his campaigning skills (i.e., his heookrrbsnd talked). Biden had the best cabinet in history, they were crushing it in fixing problems, but all Democratic strategists cared sbout was his ability to make the case for his reelection. And I don't think Biden much cared about that.
Moreover I think cognitive decline was confused with a clear problem with his voice. He sounds bad ... But that doesn't mean he was making bad decisions.
Democrats are two faced too since they wouldn't dump a house Ag committee chair in horrible health.
Biden was a competent and very successful president, as far as I am concerned. The only thing I really disagreed about was his position on Israel/Gaza. Genocide is genocide, and I would have liked him to acknowledge Israel's crimes. But Ukraine was good, and his environmental actions were very helpful.
I also greatly appreciated his accomplishments with doing something to recognize Native Americans. That was one of the many uphill battles he fought and he did do somethings. Not a lot, but I think more than any other president. Also, I loved his genuine compassion. He'd lost loved ones, he "got" it, unlike trump and the entire gop congress who have no compassion. None.
Well, Lucas, I'm glad you could help these ladies, especially with gas problem. But I can't help them. It's very hard for me to help people who live in a fantasy world. I'm a Californian and our taxes support red states. Reading this was very discouraging. If these people can't think and analyze, it's a miracle they're still alive. My husband and I are on Social Security, and California doesn't tax us. But the federal government does.
Why is Missouri so Red? My father grew up in Marshfield and, basically, saved his family's farm as a young man during the depression by joining the Civilian Conservation Corps (the CCC.) He was not alone, rural Missouri benefitted greatly from FDR's policies. I know that was a long time ago, but still . . .
Missouri went red because Republicans took advantage of the fact that most state and local elections go uncontested. In 2022, 57% of state elections in Missouri went uncontested. About 16 percent of those races had just a Democratic candidate, while 41 percent had just a Republican.
Some very good points in your article. However, I believe you missed on one important area. Many people I know that voted against their own interest & welfare are mislead by their choices of political information. There is no other way to say it. Many people have been brainwashed by constant propaganda of a certain TV channel & certain radio stations. And they have been listening to outright lies for years, not months! How to counter this? I truly believe some people are too far gone. The Democratic Party needs to begin a cohesive strategy of communication to reach independents & young people. They may even reach some that are hurting themselves & this country. All venues of communication, TV, radio, the internet, streamed talk shows, etc. must be tried. And of course, live one on ones. That is what has hurt Democrats. They just came around for a few months & thought that was sufficient. NO, NO, NO!!! The hard work has to be done! People have to get off their ass & put the time in! With that, victory will come. The tide will change. And for the better of all!
A famous poet said, when I was young, "you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows." Paying attention and analyzing what's going on is pretty much the only thing that will save you, and if you can't do that as an adult, things will probably not work out for you. Having said that, my parents had a strong prejudice against advertisements, no tv in the house, radio that was often tuned to public radio, and what seemed like a lifetime subscription to Consumer Reports. You're very positive, but it starts with the individual.
Michael, I completely agree with your assessment. CNBC reaches, on average, about 100,000 people during a daily TV prime-time show. Fox reaches about 200,000 viewers. The Joe Rogan Experience podcast reaches 14.5 million listeners. Dems have to go where the audience is. They have to get out of their safe zones.
I'm thinking that, for a Trump voter, that might be the same as a confrontation and argument. It might prevent you from getting the trust that you need. Maybe?
Perhaps you are right that such maddening refusal to accept facts is fairly universal, but in general the reason Dems can’t get things done is because we do often change our opinion when met with very specific situations. We do not hold fast to party over principle as the GOP does - sometimes a virtue but a fatal flaw politically.
As for your example of Biden, the first real glimpse the masses saw of his decline was the debate. And that’s when the tide shifted and many were asking for another candidate. I think if it hadn’t been hidden or explained away (cold medicine?) that the search for another candidate might have come sooner. I voted for Kamala but feared the fact that she was a woman (and of color) was all some people needed to know about her to refuse to vote for her, unfortunately.
I turned off the debate after 20 minutes. Did no one else notice that Trump did nothing but lie during the first 20 minutes? By my standards, Trump lost the debate. And as a Californian, Kamala really didn't meet my standards (she was a district attorney, and a little too harsh for me.) But my family all voted for her.
I watched the whole debate. Trump spouted perpetual lies throughout. It's pretty easy to spout the same lies over and over. It's pretty difficult to really answer questions.
I'm upset with Biden for running because of the optics but not because of his capabilities.
For some reason, we love confidence. We love confident, dominate people. Over my years, I learned just the opposite. If a person is too confident, it's probably because they don't know enough to know what they don't know.
I was amazed that no one criticized t for lying and his conduct during the "debate." Watching the Democrats screaming was a real turnoff. I'm 75 and I grew up during the Cold War, when Congress usually worked together. What do I remember? I remember Lyndon Johnson as the most effective president of my lifetime. He passed legislation, in terms of civil rights and poverty, that was historic. He owned the Democratic Party because he had been Senate Majority Leader. His fault was following Kennedy and McNamara and the generals in Vietnam. The message I took from that was that a competent president has almost always spent most of his government career in Congress. Joe Biden epitomized this. That accounts for the Inflation Reduction Act, which was the most historic legislation since the Sixties. I'm not looking so much for confidence and dominance, I'm looking for legislative skill in getting along with people--look at Nancy Pelosi in getting us the ACA.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." – Sen. Patrick Moynihan, 1983
“Facts are what I say they are to support my cognitive dissonant world I’ve built around me and you have to cater to my facts regardless”—America, 2024
It is true (a fact?) that you can’t change anyone’s mind by arguing with them. Stories and experiences change minds. I get the idea of coming from a different perspective to sell something and I’ll leave that to the sales folks. I just can’t do it. I’ve been an electrical engineer for four decades. Try as I might, I couldn’t convince mother nature to forget reality so that a circuit design of mine might work even if I didn’t know the facts. So, I hope folks better at selling can make some progress.
I do feel this country is suffering from what Carl Sagan wrote about 30 years ago, a “celebration of ignorance.” If we don’t correct this, the movie “Idiocracy” will truly end up being a documentary.
It will be interesting to see how tolerant we are of artificial intelligence applications that ignore the facts.
RFK is trusted by many Republicans because Trump chose him. Trump is considered a god by many. Choices that god makes are always good.
The question is how do you take out a god and the answer is you don't. The good news is that many Republicans don't consider Trump a god. Those are the people who will change the vote.
Your technique is about gaining trust through salesmanship. I suspect if you talk to any big ticket item salesperson they will tell you the same. You buy the salesperson, not the product. Once you are trusted, the customer will believe what you tell them. (But they will believe what the next person they trust tells them also.)
How do you win by gaining the trust on a major scale? I'm guessing it's about messaging and a constant message delivery system. It's about Fox and conservative media 24 hours a day 365 days a year, in campaign and not in campaign season.
I've been trying to accumulate a list of reasons people vote Republican. I see it as divers.
There are 3 single issue voters, guns, abortion and taxes. There are Christians who want to save your soul by forcing you to comply with Christian laws. There are the angry people who blame the government for not doing as well as others. There are the "The Dispatch voters" (never Trumpers) who think the Republicans and Trump are bad, but Democrats are worse. And there are the "Members" who want to be a part of the big crowd. We all derive some value by what we belong to.
I suspect the angry people and members could be changed. The angry people need a new enemy. Redirect the anger. It's not the Democrats causing their pain, it's the Billionaires behind both parties causing their pain. Billionaires Suck, so to speak.
I don't have a clue how to get to the members, except to form a new membership group. Membership is often more important than the group it self. My only suggestion is to choose some message and show it everywhere (car sticker?). Maybe "We didn't want this". There is always something you don't like. Complaining is contagious and powerful.
Democrats are always told they need a positive message, but fear and anger are driving the current Democrats protest as did the Tea Party. Fear and anger motivate people to action. And, if you are watching what Trump is doing, there is plenty to be angry about and fearful of.
I understand this argument and the anecdotal evidence of it working. However, I can't reconcile this with the fact that this is the exact opposite of what got these traitors elected. They weren't subtly understanding their feelings, they were mocking, insulting and threatening the opposition or anyone who disagreed with them. I am not convinced that your method is the answer. I would like someone to stop pandering to them, stop trying to convince them with charts and graphs, but instead go balls out angry and fighting to defend democracy and making clear what that means and who the traitors are.
Two things can be true at the same time. While I detect no lies in Lucas’ approach, it is also true it is not the approach that elected Trump/Trumpers.
Lucas’ approach is also completely disingenuous, and benefits only him and Trumpers on the MO ticket.
I also knocked doors for Robbie Sauls in 2024, when he lost to the White Christian Nationalist MAGA Joe Nicola. I’m afraid Lucas’ approach may have been complicit in that loss.
I will continue to support Lucas, be happy if he ever wins an election, but I will not be the person, “who never mentioned vaccines, and was the nicest guy I ever met.”
Hi Gina, I'm glad you were out there for Robbie, too, and I was sad it didn't work out in 24 for really anyone.
I do, however, believe that this is exactly how Trump was elected in 2016 and many others have ridden that coattail. I went back and forth about writing it about Trump or RFK. Trump earned the support of a lot of Republican primary voters, especially less engaged one, by what they perceived as sacrifice. He was constantly beaten up and mocked throughout that primary and they saw him as an outsider being attacked by an insider-club institution that they never felt a part of. Not only that, but he made them seen in many ways by saying things others weren't willing to say. He also attacked corruption. And that approach got him enough voters who were otherwise voting for democrats in the general.
And while he has been fickle with some appointees and terrible to opponents, his approach to people like Mike Waltz, Hegseth, his Jan 6th supporters, and lots of other people who would have been sidelined or worse, has shown that he will elevate his supporters and deliver for loyalty, including supporting people even when they are wrong.
He has even given his people a permission structure to accept electric cars for Elon Musk and has done a lot of extreme things on behalf of those who supported him.
I don't think that earning trust and building permission structure is the same as being complicit. Nor is it about being nice. I was not nice to Hawley at all during the campaign, for example, but we still built trust with swing voters and even Republicans. Attacking Trump nonstop would have eroded that trust and would not have changed a single mind about Trump, nor would it have gotten Robbie elected to the state Senate. Because that conversation wouldn't feel like it's about voting for Trump for them. It would feel like an attack on their decisions, decisions which, for many, have now become a core belief. And core beliefs aren't changed with evidence or facts or confrontation.
As I said, I detect no lies. Your insights into Trump-voters are true. In fact, when you say, “he made them seen in many ways by saying things others weren't willing to say,” that was exactly my dad’s experience. The first time my dad saw Trump, he exclaimed, “he’s saying exactly what I want to say.”
That is not a good thing. Trump validates the worst in people.
My dad knew better, but did not want to be better.
Some Trumpers do not know better because all they know are the lies they hear on Fox. My point is are we going to be the voice of truth and reason, or are we going to perpetuate the lies?
I completely understand your logic. It makes sense. But does the end justify the means?
I have and will continue to support you. I want and need you to succeed. It will be a great day when we have a logical and sensible person representing Missouri.
When I referred to your complicity, it is my opinion that when we do not push back against lies, we are complicit in them, and become part of the infrastructure that enables bad things to happen. In this (and every) situation, Joe Nicola is the bad thing.
Lucas, I completely agree. We will not win over MAGA by telling them what is wrong with Trump, because that sends the message that they made a bad decision. And that will make them dig in even deeper just to "save face". Instead, Dems need to acknowledge their greivances and give them an alternative vision. Just like what Governor Walz did recently at his State of the State speech when both parties applauded him when he talked about stopping fraud and abuse. "When criminals try to steal public funding, you don't cut the funding, you stop the criminals".
Lucas, I know that you've hit the nail on the head here. We should all know by now that facts and logic won't change minds. And even bad consequences that Trump voters experience as a result of their voting for him will not change their minds. Trump voters aren't stupid; they are just human. We all delude ourselves to resist change. The problem for me is that it's hard to like "them" enough to have the patience and humility to put your "three steps" into action, even though I am convinced (logically) that it is the only way. I need to do a little psychological work on myself.
I hope you can find a way to run again--for something.
I think that almost all people are smart enough. Assuming that, and treating "them" in a way that makes that clear, is the key to being able to connect with them. Not that I am any "paragon of virtue" that is very good at actually doing it.
That was really good. I've been in human services most of my life and the vast majority of my clients said they liked Trump and believed Biden was against them. Same with my disabled brother who used to be a Democrat. Same with our wonderful landlord who was so concerned with the plight of our clients. Biden doesn't care about us, he said. I have to read your suggestions on how to change things again, they're not easy and they're not direct. It was really helpful to have the example of that woman you spoke with.
Good luck with this, Lucas! I, a retired Army SGM and retired geographer, would be terrible at this tactic you are promoting.
I can accept all of the different points of view, but will not pander to people who think Trump is an ordinary person just "telling it like it is!" He's a fraud with 34 felony convictions of such. He's a liar -- a serial liar. He's an adjudicated sex offender. Given that woman could still somehow believe that he is a righteous leader for the regular folks makes me nauseous. Look at Mar-a-Lago for God's sake! He's turning the Oval Office into a brothel parlor!
I grew up taking care of hogs so don't give me this nonsense about being elite and condescending. My parents, my larger family, and the whole community were just ordinary country folks. We were all basically poor, but we had dignity and honor. At 74, I still try to retain those qualities. I would have stood up, excused myself, and marched away from that woman --- in nausea. I'm sorry but I will not pander to intentional ignorance and stupidity. I can't do it. You carry on with that, Lucas.
I find it disrespectful to condescend to people. Essentially you gain their trust anyway you can and then they will believe whatever you say. I understand the value of sales. I understand the difficulty of selling. I understand politicians have to dell. But I could never do it myself and I suspect there a different more respectful ways. I mentioned them in another post.
Joe, Lucas isnt condescending. He is meeting her where she is
What is the difference?
If you validate a position or belief that is invalid, are you condescending or meeting them where they are?
Lots of interesting points. I agree with most of them. As a retired school counselor, I know you have to talk to people from where they are. However, I would like to address your comments about ageism. I am 80 years old so I know a thing or two about aging. Holding the office of president of the United States is a high stress high pressure job if it’s done right. It requires hours of reading and talking. While I have no doubt Joe Biden had slowed down, I believe many of his issues were the result of lack of rest and time to recoup. Donald Trump has definite cognitive decline but it shows up differently. He, apparently, doesn’t read all the important papers he should; and he definitely takes a lot of time off to recoup. But he doesn’t have a lot of stamina, loses his train of thought, and acts impulsively. Either of these men look much different in clips from ten years ago. I hope this gives you a different perspective to think about.
Yes, Donnie knows what's required of the office-holder "if it's done right." That's why he sits back, sucks his thumb, lets Elon do all the heavy lifting, and relies on empty two bit slogans about tariffs and immigrants. He's got no material.
Ah, the aging problem - everybody does it differently and it's unpredictable. But once you hit 80, things can take a nosedive. I'm 86 and kick myself every time words escape me - which is why I write rather than talk. I can take the time to find that elusive word. Stamina nose dives as well. I suspect even that fireball Bernie Sanders needs careful TLC to keep going the way he does.
In My opinion we should cherish our elder statespersons and save them for the times we need their carefully honed and edited wisdom.
He's never read his daily briefings!
Donnie doesn't appear to read much of anything. He's sort of notorious for not bothering to read things. That's one of the reasons he acts impulsively: he has no idea what he's doing, and he doesn't waste his time and get bogged down reading things. Or getting any other form of education.
You mean loses, not looses.
I did not follow every single thing Biden said/did after he stepped down or the election, but what I did see, which was many speeches, talks to the American people I did not see this huge debilitating cognitive decline that the press seemed to see while seeing nothing wrong with trump. Trumps lies, inability to speak in complete sentences, inability to actually answer a question , inability to provide facts, was just fine with the media and continuing to point out that he bankrupt every business he ran as well as did not pay people he owed while under Biden's direction the American economy grew to be the best in the world was not what the media choose to do. In what was perhaps his final interview, an interview on Meidas Touch Network I was a slow speaking man in control of the facts, with compassion and concern for his nation. No he was not a firey speaker. He did not have a ton of energy...just the basis for good policies that were good for all Americans. If there is blame to be placed I do not feel it is with Biden or the Democratic party for selecting him, but rather the blame is with the media, all of which was and is pro trump and the voters who choose to not vote. No one in the media ever asked trump "Since you have bankrupted all of your companies specifically how will you run the country so that you do not bankrupt it". None of the media held him accountable except the burgeoning independent media. I do agree that we will never change trump supporters. Our job is to convince those independents who for some unknown reason thought the man who bankrupt all his companies, did not pay expenses to towns/cities where he held rallies etc etc was a good businessman who would help their small business thrive, and all those voters who choose to just not vote, possibly because they thought a convicted felon with horrible business practices and disdain for veterans, women, Muslims and anyone not white male and rich could not possibly win, to get out and vote. Trump not only did not win the majority of votes, he only won 49% of the 65% of voters who voted. That means there are a whole lot of voters out there who we should be able to convince to get out and vote. Maybe not in states like Missouri that as so red now (I live in Missouri) but in every single swing state. The harsh reality of the harm the trump admin is bringing to America is getting so obvious that even fox news can hardly ignore it but they do their best to minimize it as does most corporate media so part of our job needs to be to encourage corporate media to report the reality, and to continue to abandon them anyway for independent media like Medias Touch Network. Heather Cox Richardson, Brian Tyler Cohen.
And Biden had been traveling overseas doing diplomatic meetings with little rest before the debate.
In the debate he was answering questions factually.
It was also reported he was actually ill with flu like symptoms.
T only repeated his stump speeches over and over.
I'm 71 and I didn't see the cognitive decline that others saw. What all the Democrats complained about was not his decisionsking skills but rather his campaigning skills (i.e., his heookrrbsnd talked). Biden had the best cabinet in history, they were crushing it in fixing problems, but all Democratic strategists cared sbout was his ability to make the case for his reelection. And I don't think Biden much cared about that.
Moreover I think cognitive decline was confused with a clear problem with his voice. He sounds bad ... But that doesn't mean he was making bad decisions.
Democrats are two faced too since they wouldn't dump a house Ag committee chair in horrible health.
We need an edit option! My autocorrect is an "auto error creation" instead. "Decisionmaking" among others ... I am NOT cognitively impaired!
Biden was a competent and very successful president, as far as I am concerned. The only thing I really disagreed about was his position on Israel/Gaza. Genocide is genocide, and I would have liked him to acknowledge Israel's crimes. But Ukraine was good, and his environmental actions were very helpful.
I also greatly appreciated his accomplishments with doing something to recognize Native Americans. That was one of the many uphill battles he fought and he did do somethings. Not a lot, but I think more than any other president. Also, I loved his genuine compassion. He'd lost loved ones, he "got" it, unlike trump and the entire gop congress who have no compassion. None.
Extremely well-said, and you need to continue to run for office. Is there a blue district in MO you could use as a springboard into Congress?
The two Democratic Congressional districts in Missouri are both held by youngish African Americans. I presume they are primarily urban
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_delegations_from_Missouri
Well, Lucas, I'm glad you could help these ladies, especially with gas problem. But I can't help them. It's very hard for me to help people who live in a fantasy world. I'm a Californian and our taxes support red states. Reading this was very discouraging. If these people can't think and analyze, it's a miracle they're still alive. My husband and I are on Social Security, and California doesn't tax us. But the federal government does.
Why is Missouri so Red? My father grew up in Marshfield and, basically, saved his family's farm as a young man during the depression by joining the Civilian Conservation Corps (the CCC.) He was not alone, rural Missouri benefitted greatly from FDR's policies. I know that was a long time ago, but still . . .
I wish I could answer that question. I remember when a number of offices were held by Democrats.
One problem national organization just flew over.
At the local levels only one candidate on ballots with R by name, no choices.
Missouri went red because Republicans took advantage of the fact that most state and local elections go uncontested. In 2022, 57% of state elections in Missouri went uncontested. About 16 percent of those races had just a Democratic candidate, while 41 percent had just a Republican.
https://www.riverfronttimes.com/news/most-statewide-elections-will-go-uncontested-in-missouri-today-38850993
Some very good points in your article. However, I believe you missed on one important area. Many people I know that voted against their own interest & welfare are mislead by their choices of political information. There is no other way to say it. Many people have been brainwashed by constant propaganda of a certain TV channel & certain radio stations. And they have been listening to outright lies for years, not months! How to counter this? I truly believe some people are too far gone. The Democratic Party needs to begin a cohesive strategy of communication to reach independents & young people. They may even reach some that are hurting themselves & this country. All venues of communication, TV, radio, the internet, streamed talk shows, etc. must be tried. And of course, live one on ones. That is what has hurt Democrats. They just came around for a few months & thought that was sufficient. NO, NO, NO!!! The hard work has to be done! People have to get off their ass & put the time in! With that, victory will come. The tide will change. And for the better of all!
A famous poet said, when I was young, "you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows." Paying attention and analyzing what's going on is pretty much the only thing that will save you, and if you can't do that as an adult, things will probably not work out for you. Having said that, my parents had a strong prejudice against advertisements, no tv in the house, radio that was often tuned to public radio, and what seemed like a lifetime subscription to Consumer Reports. You're very positive, but it starts with the individual.
Michael, I completely agree with your assessment. CNBC reaches, on average, about 100,000 people during a daily TV prime-time show. Fox reaches about 200,000 viewers. The Joe Rogan Experience podcast reaches 14.5 million listeners. Dems have to go where the audience is. They have to get out of their safe zones.
After reading this, you'll have to explain to me why you did not endorse Kamala.
I'm thinking that, for a Trump voter, that might be the same as a confrontation and argument. It might prevent you from getting the trust that you need. Maybe?
My question exactly...
He also held his separate rallies and didn't show up to support Governor, Attorney General, or other Democratic candidates with great potential.
If you say you support Kamala, you're DOA. Its part of gaining the trust in the sales cycle.
Perhaps you are right that such maddening refusal to accept facts is fairly universal, but in general the reason Dems can’t get things done is because we do often change our opinion when met with very specific situations. We do not hold fast to party over principle as the GOP does - sometimes a virtue but a fatal flaw politically.
As for your example of Biden, the first real glimpse the masses saw of his decline was the debate. And that’s when the tide shifted and many were asking for another candidate. I think if it hadn’t been hidden or explained away (cold medicine?) that the search for another candidate might have come sooner. I voted for Kamala but feared the fact that she was a woman (and of color) was all some people needed to know about her to refuse to vote for her, unfortunately.
I turned off the debate after 20 minutes. Did no one else notice that Trump did nothing but lie during the first 20 minutes? By my standards, Trump lost the debate. And as a Californian, Kamala really didn't meet my standards (she was a district attorney, and a little too harsh for me.) But my family all voted for her.
I watched the whole debate. Trump spouted perpetual lies throughout. It's pretty easy to spout the same lies over and over. It's pretty difficult to really answer questions.
I'm upset with Biden for running because of the optics but not because of his capabilities.
For some reason, we love confidence. We love confident, dominate people. Over my years, I learned just the opposite. If a person is too confident, it's probably because they don't know enough to know what they don't know.
I was amazed that no one criticized t for lying and his conduct during the "debate." Watching the Democrats screaming was a real turnoff. I'm 75 and I grew up during the Cold War, when Congress usually worked together. What do I remember? I remember Lyndon Johnson as the most effective president of my lifetime. He passed legislation, in terms of civil rights and poverty, that was historic. He owned the Democratic Party because he had been Senate Majority Leader. His fault was following Kennedy and McNamara and the generals in Vietnam. The message I took from that was that a competent president has almost always spent most of his government career in Congress. Joe Biden epitomized this. That accounts for the Inflation Reduction Act, which was the most historic legislation since the Sixties. I'm not looking so much for confidence and dominance, I'm looking for legislative skill in getting along with people--look at Nancy Pelosi in getting us the ACA.
I heard lots of people criticizing Trump for that debate. It just that no one cares. For some reason presentation was far more important than content.
Even people as smart as Lucas Kunce valued presentation over content. Stumbling when you walk is more important than policy passed.
But, as I said the reality is, presentation is more important than content to get votes.
Well, then, we're in for a long hard haul.
“Facts are stubborn things;…” John Adams, 1770
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." – Sen. Patrick Moynihan, 1983
“Facts are what I say they are to support my cognitive dissonant world I’ve built around me and you have to cater to my facts regardless”—America, 2024
It is true (a fact?) that you can’t change anyone’s mind by arguing with them. Stories and experiences change minds. I get the idea of coming from a different perspective to sell something and I’ll leave that to the sales folks. I just can’t do it. I’ve been an electrical engineer for four decades. Try as I might, I couldn’t convince mother nature to forget reality so that a circuit design of mine might work even if I didn’t know the facts. So, I hope folks better at selling can make some progress.
I do feel this country is suffering from what Carl Sagan wrote about 30 years ago, a “celebration of ignorance.” If we don’t correct this, the movie “Idiocracy” will truly end up being a documentary.
It will be interesting to see how tolerant we are of artificial intelligence applications that ignore the facts.
RFK is trusted by many Republicans because Trump chose him. Trump is considered a god by many. Choices that god makes are always good.
The question is how do you take out a god and the answer is you don't. The good news is that many Republicans don't consider Trump a god. Those are the people who will change the vote.
Your technique is about gaining trust through salesmanship. I suspect if you talk to any big ticket item salesperson they will tell you the same. You buy the salesperson, not the product. Once you are trusted, the customer will believe what you tell them. (But they will believe what the next person they trust tells them also.)
How do you win by gaining the trust on a major scale? I'm guessing it's about messaging and a constant message delivery system. It's about Fox and conservative media 24 hours a day 365 days a year, in campaign and not in campaign season.
I've been trying to accumulate a list of reasons people vote Republican. I see it as divers.
There are 3 single issue voters, guns, abortion and taxes. There are Christians who want to save your soul by forcing you to comply with Christian laws. There are the angry people who blame the government for not doing as well as others. There are the "The Dispatch voters" (never Trumpers) who think the Republicans and Trump are bad, but Democrats are worse. And there are the "Members" who want to be a part of the big crowd. We all derive some value by what we belong to.
I suspect the angry people and members could be changed. The angry people need a new enemy. Redirect the anger. It's not the Democrats causing their pain, it's the Billionaires behind both parties causing their pain. Billionaires Suck, so to speak.
I don't have a clue how to get to the members, except to form a new membership group. Membership is often more important than the group it self. My only suggestion is to choose some message and show it everywhere (car sticker?). Maybe "We didn't want this". There is always something you don't like. Complaining is contagious and powerful.
Democrats are always told they need a positive message, but fear and anger are driving the current Democrats protest as did the Tea Party. Fear and anger motivate people to action. And, if you are watching what Trump is doing, there is plenty to be angry about and fearful of.
I understand this argument and the anecdotal evidence of it working. However, I can't reconcile this with the fact that this is the exact opposite of what got these traitors elected. They weren't subtly understanding their feelings, they were mocking, insulting and threatening the opposition or anyone who disagreed with them. I am not convinced that your method is the answer. I would like someone to stop pandering to them, stop trying to convince them with charts and graphs, but instead go balls out angry and fighting to defend democracy and making clear what that means and who the traitors are.
Two things can be true at the same time. While I detect no lies in Lucas’ approach, it is also true it is not the approach that elected Trump/Trumpers.
Lucas’ approach is also completely disingenuous, and benefits only him and Trumpers on the MO ticket.
I also knocked doors for Robbie Sauls in 2024, when he lost to the White Christian Nationalist MAGA Joe Nicola. I’m afraid Lucas’ approach may have been complicit in that loss.
I will continue to support Lucas, be happy if he ever wins an election, but I will not be the person, “who never mentioned vaccines, and was the nicest guy I ever met.”
Hi Gina, I'm glad you were out there for Robbie, too, and I was sad it didn't work out in 24 for really anyone.
I do, however, believe that this is exactly how Trump was elected in 2016 and many others have ridden that coattail. I went back and forth about writing it about Trump or RFK. Trump earned the support of a lot of Republican primary voters, especially less engaged one, by what they perceived as sacrifice. He was constantly beaten up and mocked throughout that primary and they saw him as an outsider being attacked by an insider-club institution that they never felt a part of. Not only that, but he made them seen in many ways by saying things others weren't willing to say. He also attacked corruption. And that approach got him enough voters who were otherwise voting for democrats in the general.
And while he has been fickle with some appointees and terrible to opponents, his approach to people like Mike Waltz, Hegseth, his Jan 6th supporters, and lots of other people who would have been sidelined or worse, has shown that he will elevate his supporters and deliver for loyalty, including supporting people even when they are wrong.
He has even given his people a permission structure to accept electric cars for Elon Musk and has done a lot of extreme things on behalf of those who supported him.
I don't think that earning trust and building permission structure is the same as being complicit. Nor is it about being nice. I was not nice to Hawley at all during the campaign, for example, but we still built trust with swing voters and even Republicans. Attacking Trump nonstop would have eroded that trust and would not have changed a single mind about Trump, nor would it have gotten Robbie elected to the state Senate. Because that conversation wouldn't feel like it's about voting for Trump for them. It would feel like an attack on their decisions, decisions which, for many, have now become a core belief. And core beliefs aren't changed with evidence or facts or confrontation.
As I said, I detect no lies. Your insights into Trump-voters are true. In fact, when you say, “he made them seen in many ways by saying things others weren't willing to say,” that was exactly my dad’s experience. The first time my dad saw Trump, he exclaimed, “he’s saying exactly what I want to say.”
That is not a good thing. Trump validates the worst in people.
My dad knew better, but did not want to be better.
Some Trumpers do not know better because all they know are the lies they hear on Fox. My point is are we going to be the voice of truth and reason, or are we going to perpetuate the lies?
I completely understand your logic. It makes sense. But does the end justify the means?
I have and will continue to support you. I want and need you to succeed. It will be a great day when we have a logical and sensible person representing Missouri.
When I referred to your complicity, it is my opinion that when we do not push back against lies, we are complicit in them, and become part of the infrastructure that enables bad things to happen. In this (and every) situation, Joe Nicola is the bad thing.
Lucas, I completely agree. We will not win over MAGA by telling them what is wrong with Trump, because that sends the message that they made a bad decision. And that will make them dig in even deeper just to "save face". Instead, Dems need to acknowledge their greivances and give them an alternative vision. Just like what Governor Walz did recently at his State of the State speech when both parties applauded him when he talked about stopping fraud and abuse. "When criminals try to steal public funding, you don't cut the funding, you stop the criminals".
Missouri should change their motto from 'The Show Me State' to 'Don't bother To Show Me State'
Lucas, you get it.
Lucas, I know that you've hit the nail on the head here. We should all know by now that facts and logic won't change minds. And even bad consequences that Trump voters experience as a result of their voting for him will not change their minds. Trump voters aren't stupid; they are just human. We all delude ourselves to resist change. The problem for me is that it's hard to like "them" enough to have the patience and humility to put your "three steps" into action, even though I am convinced (logically) that it is the only way. I need to do a little psychological work on myself.
I hope you can find a way to run again--for something.
Being human and stupid are not mutually exclusive. However, as described, we can all be biased.
I think that almost all people are smart enough. Assuming that, and treating "them" in a way that makes that clear, is the key to being able to connect with them. Not that I am any "paragon of virtue" that is very good at actually doing it.
That was really good. I've been in human services most of my life and the vast majority of my clients said they liked Trump and believed Biden was against them. Same with my disabled brother who used to be a Democrat. Same with our wonderful landlord who was so concerned with the plight of our clients. Biden doesn't care about us, he said. I have to read your suggestions on how to change things again, they're not easy and they're not direct. It was really helpful to have the example of that woman you spoke with.
It is maddening that they could think that amoral miscreant Trump cares about anything other than himself. That makes no sense.