Lucas Kunce is absolutely correct. My only issue with his article assumes the Gilded Age ended in around 1900. I believe the effects of the Gilded Age, especially its concentration of wealth, did not end until the Great Depression and World War 2. Sadly, people like Musk, Ramaswamy, and Trump remind me of cold heartlessness and absolute immorality of the Gilded Age millionaires. Restoration of the income tax structure of the 1940s and 1950s would go a long ways to restoring the income balance in this country.
Wealth disparity subsided during the beginning of the 20th Century from TR to Wilson, but grew again in the 1920s from Harding to Hoover due to presidential corruption & laissez-faire economics, something we're almost certain to see (even more than now) under Trump/Musk.
I agree that the taxation structures of the 40s through the 70s allowed a more balanced and just society, but I don't agree about Musk's lack of morality. Throughout most of his career Musk was a moderate Democrat in votes, and had little interest in wealth for its Own sakes - rather using it to advance goals: electrifying transportation, space travel, innovation in restoring function through electronic stimulation of brain function. His shift to Trump was triggered by three factors, experience with the stultifying effect of labyrinthine federal regulation on advances in technology, an uncontrolled border, and encouragement of trends in transformation in sexual identity that adversely affects one of his children.
Without disputing the accuracy of your assessment of Mr. Musk, the fact remains that he has chosen to support a felon, narcissist, traitor and con man instead of one of the myriad Republicans who espouse, at least publicly, the same positions on social issues and much more detailed and nuanced policy ideas. If a quarter of a billion dollars was sufficient to swing an election from a thoroughly reasonable, experienced, and thoughtful candidate like Harris to the current President-elect, could it not have been used to get the former president out of the way in favor of a GOP analog?
I don't believe that any of us can possibly know what did or does motivate Musk. I believe that his demand for a multi billion dollar salary tells us a lot. It doesn't indicate an altruistic motive.
Musk has changed recently. Since he bought Twitter, he has used it to promote right wing ideas and has even allowed Nazi propaganda on X. I heard that he had used mind altering drugs. I don’t know, but he does seem to be a changed man.
If he is using this drug, its only a matter of time before bad things happen to him. This drug is intended for large animals not people. Medical doctors never use it on people. Leave it for Veterinarians to use.
The condition of person's morality can quickly go bad for any number of reasons. Greed is a one good indicator of morality. The more greedy one is, the more immoral a person is. There are other indicators of person's morality, but greed often does a good job indicating how you treat others. So, how someone treats others is another good indicator of a person's morality. Does anyone think a person who deserts his wife and child, abuses his wife (whether verbal or physically), abuser an animal, or assaults the elderly or homeless is moral? Of course not.
Brilliantly said, Lucas. We need to escape this new Gilded Age with collective organizing and Union strikes. Thank you for fighting for Missourians like me.
I've started wanting Heather Cox Richardson to sit down with the tech bros and teach them about the Gilded Age. As a history major, the tech bros words and actions remind me of that age. There are many lessons to be learned. The US isn't a corporation and government doesn't have the same goals as for profit businesses. Privatization only really works for the corporations not the people. It isn't more efficient either. I would live to see history not repeat itself.
Mr. Kunce. That fairness is exactly what we need to revive as a nation. I agree with you whole heartedly. Again it is time to respect the anti-trust laws, enforce the rules and apply them justly. If history has taught us anything it has taught that inequities are more dangerous to society than high taxes or labor unions. I have family that has lived under “socialist” medicine and have been well taken care of over the past fifty years. Thank you for pointing toward that fact. There is a great study of inequality and outcomes “The Spirit Level” which demonstrates the importance of balancing rather than allowing inequality to explode. Hypercapitalism is a problem for everyone- rich and poor alike. It perverts Democracy and creates outrage - that our political leaders are now billionaires or pandering to billionaires is making the nation sick.
More organizing, yes, but money out of politics, too. Make it illegal for individuals to give millions to candidates and prosecute those who receive contributions from foreign countries. Let’s look to AOC, Bernie and others to lead this effort!
That's a start, but having Bernie, AOC, and their "Socialist" colleagues lead the charge without substantial moderate (Center-Left) support is a recipe for failure and we've cooked that dish before. Absolutely get the big money out of politics, limit the campaign window to 6 months or so, and enforce the laws on the books in a manner that looks timely by the standards of normal people, not lawyers, judges, and pundits.
I'm with you Dave! This can't be a Progressive action because it won't work electorally. I'm a Social Democrat, but I'm also a pragmatist. We need the center/moderates to get back.
Let's provide a choice, not an echo. Remember how that worked to the Right's advantage? We progressives should trumpet our positions on workers' rights, parental leave, child tax credit, health care as a right, a proudly multiracial society etc., etc. Give people something to vote for. As it is now, millions of us don' vote. Can we figure out why that is? A moderate choose sides. Let it be our side plainly stated.
Well researched, thoughtful provocative. The problem is the MAGAs likely won't see much less read and understand. How to reach them is the challenge. keep up your great work
That leads to the necessity of sitting down with our friends, family and neighbors over a cup of coffee or a card game and discussing the issues and coming to a consensus of what we need to improve our lives. AFTER that we can work on how to get there. The problem comes in with LISTENING to each other. No one is really doing that. We really are not that far apart. We just are no longer sitting face to face and seeing that we are in the same boat, but looking at different sides of it. I believe Social Media has a lot to do with that. We now sit behind our keyboards where we put out our thoughts but don't REALLY engage with each other. I'm going to have a tough time not smirking when shit hits the fan and saying 'We told you so, now eat shit, you voted for this', when I really need to be saying "let's get our shit together and fix this mess". It might be too late for that though. I hope not.
Former President Obama recently held a forum at which he suggested something similar - ID the issues where you agree, develop relationships, and then maybe pull the Rs in in a broader way.
Just curious, how do you get people who are so invested in their own opinions to listen to anyone else? I’ve tried to talk to prisoner PO01135809 supporters, and they absolutely refuse to listen.
That is difficult. The only thing I can suggest is start light and move forward slowly. Even if it's only agreeing the price of eggs are pretty high, and not trying to push your point beyond that until people settle in with that starting point. Then take the next step of agreeing that we sure would like to see prices stop going up so high. One step at a time and stop before it becomes a fight.
I've (sadly) come to the conclusion that--in aggregate--we are a people too uninformed by what is real/verifiable/unspun, too gullible, too tribal, too self-engaged/anti-communitarian to govern ourselves any longer. Twenty-one years ago Thomas Frank issued WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH KANSAS, spelling out the trick of getting us to vote against our own interests . . . it's only become more extreme since. When Trump voters are polled on specific policies many choose more progressive policies . . . the reason they vote against these ideas is that the far right has demonized Democrats with insanely over-heated rhetoric, a barrage of outright lies, and hiding their economic agenda beneath the waves of the culture wars. If I had to blame one this situation on one entitiy, it would be Rupert Murdoch's unchecked creation of a faux news empire. I wasn't at all surprised by a poll not long ago that showed that FOX viewers scored lower in quizzes about current events, and so on, than those who watched no news at all.
The game has been rigged ever since the Citizens United ruling by the Supreme Court. The current Supreme Court is worse than that one. The people appear to have been fooled by Trump this time. Voting against their own interests in large numbers. I can only hope that buyers remorse sets in quickly.
You left out the one factor that helped turned the tide dramatically at the turn of the twentieth century. Unfortunately it is something that we cannot count on to help us turn the tide of this second gilded age. Two words... Teddy Roosevelt! Everyone should read about the pure irony of him becoming POTUS! He helped turn everything around back then with his strong leadership and getting laws passed that reined in the rich elitist crowd.
Thank you for putting to words a feeling that I had that Luigi and the Cybertruck guy were the tip of an incoming iceberg of symbolic and radical acts against the new ruling class of self-intersted oligarchs. I didn't know that there was a name for it until you introduced me to “propaganda of the deed". Unfortunately, I think that we are going to see a lot more of this as the wealth gap continues to grow.
Your premise is absolutely right, Lucas! However, I spent 23 years in the Army and am baffled how a MSG SpcOp would do this while praising Trump and Musk. He's taken that oath! Didn't he understand it or has it been reinterpreted?
I view Donald Trump as a "domestic enemy of the Constitution". Now, Elon Musk qualifies as a domestic enemy also.
This old retired soldier doesn't understand --- I don't get it!
I wondered if he felt betrayed by trump. Sucked in hook, line and sinker and finds out too late! Just the idea of a Musk truck and in front of Trump tower, tying the two together!
THANK YOU! I have been trying to tell people that we have been through this before in the so-called "gilded age"! But I get nothing but blank looks. It can make you feel like you're just beating a brick wall. It's been a lonely and helpless feeling. "Am I crazy?" has run through my head more than once. Your campaign was the first I have ever contributed to in my life due to my poor income. But in viewing what you were saying it became important to me to do everything I could, personally, to get you elected. Due to the results of our election I now am faced with the real possibility of losing my healthcare, my food support and my housing. I am not a lazy man. I am just old and have had two open heart surgeries and a host of other physical ailments that aren't uncommon with Seasoned Citizens. But with the small amount of income from my Social Security I have been able to stake out a life of dignity for myself. My apartment may be small and my belongings meager but it is all mine and I owe not one red cent to anyone. Now I am in real danger of losing it all. At times I have even allowed the ultra-right to make me feel ashamed of myself and my life. Thank you once again for bringing a bright light of logic and history to me today! I don't know what is going to happen to me. I have fears that I've never had before. But it gives me great hope to know that there are people like yourself who are seeing things clearly and who has the strength and the will to carry on for us all. Thank you Lucas.
While I don't condone violence, I understand why Mangione did this. As the mother and advocate of a daughter with an ultra rare, incurable disease, I've been frustrated and angry more than once from when she turned 13 and the symptoms started until present day at nearly 46, I have listened to doctors and nurses call her a drug attack, refuse ER treatment because they didn't understand her disease, etc. She has had insurance turn her down and even now, living in AZ, she can't use original Medicare because she doesn't qualify for a Medigap. I know many people with the same situation. Something needs to change!
Lucas Kunce is absolutely correct. My only issue with his article assumes the Gilded Age ended in around 1900. I believe the effects of the Gilded Age, especially its concentration of wealth, did not end until the Great Depression and World War 2. Sadly, people like Musk, Ramaswamy, and Trump remind me of cold heartlessness and absolute immorality of the Gilded Age millionaires. Restoration of the income tax structure of the 1940s and 1950s would go a long ways to restoring the income balance in this country.
Wealth disparity subsided during the beginning of the 20th Century from TR to Wilson, but grew again in the 1920s from Harding to Hoover due to presidential corruption & laissez-faire economics, something we're almost certain to see (even more than now) under Trump/Musk.
I agree that the taxation structures of the 40s through the 70s allowed a more balanced and just society, but I don't agree about Musk's lack of morality. Throughout most of his career Musk was a moderate Democrat in votes, and had little interest in wealth for its Own sakes - rather using it to advance goals: electrifying transportation, space travel, innovation in restoring function through electronic stimulation of brain function. His shift to Trump was triggered by three factors, experience with the stultifying effect of labyrinthine federal regulation on advances in technology, an uncontrolled border, and encouragement of trends in transformation in sexual identity that adversely affects one of his children.
Without disputing the accuracy of your assessment of Mr. Musk, the fact remains that he has chosen to support a felon, narcissist, traitor and con man instead of one of the myriad Republicans who espouse, at least publicly, the same positions on social issues and much more detailed and nuanced policy ideas. If a quarter of a billion dollars was sufficient to swing an election from a thoroughly reasonable, experienced, and thoughtful candidate like Harris to the current President-elect, could it not have been used to get the former president out of the way in favor of a GOP analog?
Dave Conant - MO, 💯🎯
I don't believe that any of us can possibly know what did or does motivate Musk. I believe that his demand for a multi billion dollar salary tells us a lot. It doesn't indicate an altruistic motive.
Musk has changed recently. Since he bought Twitter, he has used it to promote right wing ideas and has even allowed Nazi propaganda on X. I heard that he had used mind altering drugs. I don’t know, but he does seem to be a changed man.
No one has descended further in my estimation than Musk.
He does not hide that he uses ketamine….
If he is using this drug, its only a matter of time before bad things happen to him. This drug is intended for large animals not people. Medical doctors never use it on people. Leave it for Veterinarians to use.
The condition of person's morality can quickly go bad for any number of reasons. Greed is a one good indicator of morality. The more greedy one is, the more immoral a person is. There are other indicators of person's morality, but greed often does a good job indicating how you treat others. So, how someone treats others is another good indicator of a person's morality. Does anyone think a person who deserts his wife and child, abuses his wife (whether verbal or physically), abuser an animal, or assaults the elderly or homeless is moral? Of course not.
Brilliantly said, Lucas. We need to escape this new Gilded Age with collective organizing and Union strikes. Thank you for fighting for Missourians like me.
I've started wanting Heather Cox Richardson to sit down with the tech bros and teach them about the Gilded Age. As a history major, the tech bros words and actions remind me of that age. There are many lessons to be learned. The US isn't a corporation and government doesn't have the same goals as for profit businesses. Privatization only really works for the corporations not the people. It isn't more efficient either. I would live to see history not repeat itself.
Typo or great Freudian slip?
"I would live to see history not repeat itself."
Mr. Kunce. That fairness is exactly what we need to revive as a nation. I agree with you whole heartedly. Again it is time to respect the anti-trust laws, enforce the rules and apply them justly. If history has taught us anything it has taught that inequities are more dangerous to society than high taxes or labor unions. I have family that has lived under “socialist” medicine and have been well taken care of over the past fifty years. Thank you for pointing toward that fact. There is a great study of inequality and outcomes “The Spirit Level” which demonstrates the importance of balancing rather than allowing inequality to explode. Hypercapitalism is a problem for everyone- rich and poor alike. It perverts Democracy and creates outrage - that our political leaders are now billionaires or pandering to billionaires is making the nation sick.
More organizing, yes, but money out of politics, too. Make it illegal for individuals to give millions to candidates and prosecute those who receive contributions from foreign countries. Let’s look to AOC, Bernie and others to lead this effort!
That's a start, but having Bernie, AOC, and their "Socialist" colleagues lead the charge without substantial moderate (Center-Left) support is a recipe for failure and we've cooked that dish before. Absolutely get the big money out of politics, limit the campaign window to 6 months or so, and enforce the laws on the books in a manner that looks timely by the standards of normal people, not lawyers, judges, and pundits.
I'm with you Dave! This can't be a Progressive action because it won't work electorally. I'm a Social Democrat, but I'm also a pragmatist. We need the center/moderates to get back.
Let's provide a choice, not an echo. Remember how that worked to the Right's advantage? We progressives should trumpet our positions on workers' rights, parental leave, child tax credit, health care as a right, a proudly multiracial society etc., etc. Give people something to vote for. As it is now, millions of us don' vote. Can we figure out why that is? A moderate choose sides. Let it be our side plainly stated.
Blumenthal, Murphy, Wyden, Merkley?
Good men, all of them. Warren & Whitehouse are a couple more good ones.
Well researched, thoughtful provocative. The problem is the MAGAs likely won't see much less read and understand. How to reach them is the challenge. keep up your great work
That leads to the necessity of sitting down with our friends, family and neighbors over a cup of coffee or a card game and discussing the issues and coming to a consensus of what we need to improve our lives. AFTER that we can work on how to get there. The problem comes in with LISTENING to each other. No one is really doing that. We really are not that far apart. We just are no longer sitting face to face and seeing that we are in the same boat, but looking at different sides of it. I believe Social Media has a lot to do with that. We now sit behind our keyboards where we put out our thoughts but don't REALLY engage with each other. I'm going to have a tough time not smirking when shit hits the fan and saying 'We told you so, now eat shit, you voted for this', when I really need to be saying "let's get our shit together and fix this mess". It might be too late for that though. I hope not.
Former President Obama recently held a forum at which he suggested something similar - ID the issues where you agree, develop relationships, and then maybe pull the Rs in in a broader way.
Just curious, how do you get people who are so invested in their own opinions to listen to anyone else? I’ve tried to talk to prisoner PO01135809 supporters, and they absolutely refuse to listen.
That is difficult. The only thing I can suggest is start light and move forward slowly. Even if it's only agreeing the price of eggs are pretty high, and not trying to push your point beyond that until people settle in with that starting point. Then take the next step of agreeing that we sure would like to see prices stop going up so high. One step at a time and stop before it becomes a fight.
Great analogy! Wasnt that also an era where the oligarchy owned the media- newspapers at the time?
That's been the case since before this nation became the United States of America.
One of your best pieces.
I've (sadly) come to the conclusion that--in aggregate--we are a people too uninformed by what is real/verifiable/unspun, too gullible, too tribal, too self-engaged/anti-communitarian to govern ourselves any longer. Twenty-one years ago Thomas Frank issued WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH KANSAS, spelling out the trick of getting us to vote against our own interests . . . it's only become more extreme since. When Trump voters are polled on specific policies many choose more progressive policies . . . the reason they vote against these ideas is that the far right has demonized Democrats with insanely over-heated rhetoric, a barrage of outright lies, and hiding their economic agenda beneath the waves of the culture wars. If I had to blame one this situation on one entitiy, it would be Rupert Murdoch's unchecked creation of a faux news empire. I wasn't at all surprised by a poll not long ago that showed that FOX viewers scored lower in quizzes about current events, and so on, than those who watched no news at all.
The game has been rigged ever since the Citizens United ruling by the Supreme Court. The current Supreme Court is worse than that one. The people appear to have been fooled by Trump this time. Voting against their own interests in large numbers. I can only hope that buyers remorse sets in quickly.
You left out the one factor that helped turned the tide dramatically at the turn of the twentieth century. Unfortunately it is something that we cannot count on to help us turn the tide of this second gilded age. Two words... Teddy Roosevelt! Everyone should read about the pure irony of him becoming POTUS! He helped turn everything around back then with his strong leadership and getting laws passed that reined in the rich elitist crowd.
Or, just maybe, times like these make people like Roosevelt.
We can always hope!
Thank you for putting to words a feeling that I had that Luigi and the Cybertruck guy were the tip of an incoming iceberg of symbolic and radical acts against the new ruling class of self-intersted oligarchs. I didn't know that there was a name for it until you introduced me to “propaganda of the deed". Unfortunately, I think that we are going to see a lot more of this as the wealth gap continues to grow.
I think you are pretty spot on Lucas!! I live in St. Louis and would love to be a part of the resurgence of the dem party in MO and beyond 🙌❤️🙏
Your deep appreciation of American history is evident
Your premise is absolutely right, Lucas! However, I spent 23 years in the Army and am baffled how a MSG SpcOp would do this while praising Trump and Musk. He's taken that oath! Didn't he understand it or has it been reinterpreted?
I view Donald Trump as a "domestic enemy of the Constitution". Now, Elon Musk qualifies as a domestic enemy also.
This old retired soldier doesn't understand --- I don't get it!
Jim, I feel the same. I don't quite understand those who abandon their oaths. All I can know is: some people just aren't wired right. 😞
I wondered if he felt betrayed by trump. Sucked in hook, line and sinker and finds out too late! Just the idea of a Musk truck and in front of Trump tower, tying the two together!
THANK YOU! I have been trying to tell people that we have been through this before in the so-called "gilded age"! But I get nothing but blank looks. It can make you feel like you're just beating a brick wall. It's been a lonely and helpless feeling. "Am I crazy?" has run through my head more than once. Your campaign was the first I have ever contributed to in my life due to my poor income. But in viewing what you were saying it became important to me to do everything I could, personally, to get you elected. Due to the results of our election I now am faced with the real possibility of losing my healthcare, my food support and my housing. I am not a lazy man. I am just old and have had two open heart surgeries and a host of other physical ailments that aren't uncommon with Seasoned Citizens. But with the small amount of income from my Social Security I have been able to stake out a life of dignity for myself. My apartment may be small and my belongings meager but it is all mine and I owe not one red cent to anyone. Now I am in real danger of losing it all. At times I have even allowed the ultra-right to make me feel ashamed of myself and my life. Thank you once again for bringing a bright light of logic and history to me today! I don't know what is going to happen to me. I have fears that I've never had before. But it gives me great hope to know that there are people like yourself who are seeing things clearly and who has the strength and the will to carry on for us all. Thank you Lucas.
Lee Jeffreys
Springfield, Mo.
While I don't condone violence, I understand why Mangione did this. As the mother and advocate of a daughter with an ultra rare, incurable disease, I've been frustrated and angry more than once from when she turned 13 and the symptoms started until present day at nearly 46, I have listened to doctors and nurses call her a drug attack, refuse ER treatment because they didn't understand her disease, etc. She has had insurance turn her down and even now, living in AZ, she can't use original Medicare because she doesn't qualify for a Medigap. I know many people with the same situation. Something needs to change!